Bad Week End

[electjohn]

Last week end was bad for motorcycle riders, three were kille in this immediate area, all involved riders under 25 and all involved excessive speed and all were the fault of the rider. I am not picking on young riders, the only reason that I am here today is because of one thing LUCK not skill good judgment but pure luck if anyone tells you any different they are lieing to you and thereselves. Skill and judgment help but there are times they fail and we barely scrape out. I take steriods every day so that I can walk so you know I didn't make it this far without mishap.

[Honinjsuz]

Have to disagree. Only because taken out to end, it says you cant do anything but rely on luck, fate, whatever. You can make your own luck to a significant extent, improve your odds to come home safe by applying lots of judgement and skill. Empasis on judgement. After that, it's luck.

[2007 650R]

It's not luck or skill that keeps me alive. It's the FORCE.

But seriously, I've heard of three people killed on motorcycles this season already and they were all younger folks. Some people just think they are invincible.

[Honinjsuz]

It's been 15 years now, my friend who was an excellent rider, skilled, experienced, with excellent judgement, was killed. He had just stopped at a stop sign. He was run over by a thief in a large p/u, who was fleeing from a group of kids from whom he had just stole a boom box. Killer never caught. That was bad luck. But he could have been a pedestrian. Rider in N. Dakota who was run over by the Congressman at a stop sign a few years ago- that was bad luck. Shit certainly does happen. But day-to-day, you can improve your odds. Hate to echo the safety nazis, but excessive speed for the conditions (ie: bad judgement) is the biggest killer for rider's fault, in motion incidents.

[williamr]

I used to think I was an excellent rider, and that the crashes I'd had were either bad luck or the fault of the other driver.

In my mid 20s I trained as an instructor - training was provided by instructors from the Cheshire Police rider training school - and realised that while I was good in one sense, there was a hell of a lot I didn't know and a lot that I was getting wrong. In the 35 years since then I've only broken one bone - a little one in my wrist - and lost a bit of skin from riding without boots when I knew it stupid at the time. If anything I rode faster after the training as well.

Skill and experience let you make your own luck most of the time, but you need maturity and life experience to really realise that - and most psychologists today reckon that males aren't mature, in that sense, until their early thirties.

Sometimes your luck just runs out, but most of the time you can improve it - a lot.

Rob

[shadows]

Last week end was bad for motorcycle riders, three were kille in this immediate area, all involved riders under 25 and all involved excessive speed and all were the fault of the rider. I am not picking on young riders, the only reason that I am here today is because of one thing LUCK not skill good judgment but pure luck if anyone tells you any different they are lieing to you and thereselves. Skill and judgment help but there are times they fail and we barely scrape out. I take steriods every day so that I can walk so you know I didn't make it this far without mishap.

Its experience and skill that will keep u alive on a motorcycle, mixed with some common sense.
Sure luck plays a part in anything u do in life, but being unskilled on a motorcycle will most certainly lead to a tragedy.
Im 31, i learned to ride back when i was about 21 on a friends old kawi ss 750 standard, he put a dirt tire on the back so he could ride it on his farm land.
Well i crashed that bike over 12 times easy, with no gear on.
All slow speed, non resulting in any kind of injury other than a small road rash on my right cheek.
It was a great way to learn for 1 reason, it was on dirt.
So even though i layed that bike down more times than i care to admit i learned so much from doing it.
I learned something different from every little spill.
The bike was a tank and always popped right back up.

The reason my bike is still in great condition today, and i havent really had any close calls in 2 and a half seasons now after 13k miles of aggressive riding, is because i got my accidents out of the way on dirt.
So now with that experience and my skill together with my common sense, im pretty safe on the road even in a thunderstorm passing 18 wheelers up.
My friend can attest to that as he rode with me at speeds around 85 90 for over 50 miles on the interstate during a surprise thunderstorm.

[mattjew]

When one rides a motorcycle, one must classify himself as invisible. Treat your surrounding vehicles as a constant threat, and never place ANY responsibility for YOUR safety in their hands. But shit does happen...

I was taught that the majority of motorcycle crashes/accidents happen during cornering. So now I make DAMN sure to slow down enough to accelerate through the turn, and I stick to the safe side(s) of the lane...Incase someone pulls out infront of me. Or the other side, if there are no side streets, because it gives me a better view down the turn/road.

When I pull up to a stop light, I choose to pull on the side so I have an escape route, and I leave room between me and the car infront of me. It pisses me off when I see harley riders pull up, side by side, RIGHT on the ass of a car infront of them. Idiots...

Having only rode for a few weeks...there's much to learn still. And I try my best not to get cocky on my 650R.

[shadows]

The reason many newer riders take spills during cornering, is because they have no idea how to corner correctly in the first place.
What i mean by that is they dont understand proper line, and cornering technique.

Theres a basic 4 step process for taking any corner on a motorcycle.
1. Line judgement - figure out the safest line (normally the correct racing line) to take throughout the turn.
2. Entry speed - slow down to the proper entry speed before entering.
3. Lean angle - determine how far over u must lean to properly navigate the turn.
4. As u pass the apex of the turn (the very center or clipping point) roll on throttle out.

As u get better at cornering and more confident, you will then be accelerating into the apex and out all in 1 smooth sweep.

If more beginners understood these basic cornering skills , it would not be as dangerous as it is to most of them.
After a low side most people smarten up and start using correct line and technique.
Tires also can make a world of difference when cornering.
Especially when u consider the stock tires on the 650r are not very sticky at all.
Being a newer rider ide suggest u read this and try to understand it carefully.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_line

This unfortunately isnt something your gonna learn in a msf beginners riding course.
They will explain the process of cornering being, outside, inside, outside.
Meaning approach the corner from the outside of the apex, turn into the apex, and roll on throttle out again.

[Forkster]

Strange, most of the deaths around here are the baby-boomers with their big bikes dropping them on the highway. A couple of single accidents here and there. My mother works for the Alberta Safety Council - the one that does the motorcycle safety training (non-profit, government sponsored), and the average age of those involved in accidents is 56. Go figure...

[mattjew]

My msf instructor teaches at the race track and did indeed teach us cornering. i am comfortable throttling through turns...it just makes sense. and he taught us the 'out in out' thing. good link tho

[Baxter]

It's been 15 years now, my friend who was an excellent rider, skilled, experienced, with excellent judgement, was killed. He had just stopped at a stop sign. He was run over by a thief in a large p/u, who was fleeing from a group of kids from whom he had just stole a boom box. Killer never caught. That was bad luck. But he could have been a pedestrian. Rider in N. Dakota who was run over by the Congressman at a stop sign a few years ago- that was bad luck. Shit certainly does happen. But day-to-day, you can improve your odds. Hate to echo the safety nazis, but excessive speed for the conditions (ie: bad judgement) is the biggest killer for rider's fault, in motion incidents.

I don't want it to appear that I'm picking on you, but I recall that the crash you're referring to occured in South Dakota, not that it matters to the unfortunate guy who was killed. The congressman was a former governor, and the judge rulled that his past record of excessive speeding and other citations couldn't be introduced as evidence because of the fear that the jury would convict him based only on those past actions rather than analyze the perticular facts involved in the crash. The result was that this congressman had little or no consequences for his actions, possibly because this information was witheld from the jury.

In relation to single-vehicle crashes, I came across one last weekend. A heavy Harley touring rig took a curve too wide. It appeared that the rider stayed upright for about 40 or 50 feet in the ditch, but then tipped over. I stopped to help direct traffic before official help could arrive--others had already stopped, including a nurse or EMT. I suspect the rider had excessive speed for the curve considering the weight of the bike, but I don't know his experience level. The rider's helmet appears to have served its purpose admirably--he was beat up & required hospitalization but he was awake, aware of his surroundings, and could talk.

While anything can happen to anyone, I think that people who are consistently "lucky" really just have good judgment and good planning. The safety course has kept me out of trouble more than a few times--and has probably done so for many more times that I'm not even aware of. I've never had to test the helmet theory personally, but I'd certainly urge anyone to use a helmet. Bad things can still happen to even the most cautious person, but to echo what you said, we can easily train ourselves and take reasonable precautions to reduce the risks.