Ninja Adventure Bike

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4play
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Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:00 pm

Nothing new, there have been many in front of me.
I'm setting up a 2006 650R to be used 50/50 on & offroad.
The suspension I have mostly sorted out.
The engine/gearbox is the reason for doing the work in the 1st place.
I'd like to optimize it for what I'll be doing the most of, cruising the hwy & exploring.
Some two up riding with the wife & some tight woods. Smooth throttle response & reasonable noise control are important.
I rode a Versys & was not real impressed compared to a Ninja. I'd like to gain some mid without totally killing the top end. I have a Vesys intake cam to use if that's the right thing to do? Can somebody lead me to the cam specs for degreeing in the cams or alternate specs if that's the right thing to do?

Idea's?

Thanks
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Retro Rocketeer
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:31 pm

Being a Ninja owner and racer, as well as a Versys owner, as well as a KLR650 owner, as well as a CRF250R owner and racer, I'm a little baffled.

I would much rather sort out a Versys for more off pavement riding than try the same with a Ninja. The longer travel suspension and seating arrangement is certainly for starters. The subframe is more accomodating for gear. Lots more internet info and product support for making the Versys more rugged, i.e. skid plate and bash and crash guards.

I'm trying to think of all the times I've wanted WFO top end for dirt. A handful of times in the desert/CRF. A rare long straight in a moto with 4th gear/CRF. Hardly ever with my KLR650. All I can think of is early torque and midrange. The Versys has both, hense better than the Ninja for tight woods. It also has the larger radiator, which you'll want if you are carrying your passenger in those hot and loaded slower dirt riding ventures. It will also spend the whole day at 85mph like it was born that way. With 50/50 pave/dirt, you will be running some sort of knobby, so again not really top end friendly.

If you want to keep that awesome Ninja topend, I'd leave the engine alone and change the sprockets. Drop 1 in the front and go up 6 in the back. Then you can go slow in the tight stuff and keep all the top end power.

Knock yourself out.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:57 pm

Hi a little Baffled,
I'm an offroad rider that has to get on pavement to connect trails & my wife on occassion wants to go for a street ride. This bike will be a true 50/50 bike I will use for exploration rides & pavement when it's called for. We rode a Versys, they're cute, but they are not very capable past a smooth fireroad & the power 2 up was not enough for hwy cruising (hwy cruising in AZ quite often is 85mph). The Versys seem to bring a premium & I was going to have to replace the suspension, wheels & trim the fat anyway, so starting with a lightly wrecked (dirt cheap) Ninja made perfect sense. It has a front end off a KTM & the rear will have an R1 shock with a 2" extended swing arm shortly. My math says I'll have just over 8" of travel in the back once I replace the inner fender.
The Ninja rear frame is a bit stronger, the motor is definately stronger, the 4 vs 5 gallon tank is a trade off for asthetics. My other bike is a tagged poked & stroked 600cc KTM . It's a hoot on the rides it was built for but it's zero fun on pavement.
I'm not rying to build a Verys, I'm replacing my KTM990S with something even more capable offroad (partailly because the Mutant is 140lbs lighter). The only production bike that is in the same arena as what I'm building is the GS800 & I'll have about 1/3 that much money tied up in this one.

Versys intake cam or no? I will most likely wind up moving the muffler to the side of the bike, the extra length can't hurt IMHO. I have a spare oil pan I intend to remove the extended drain plug on.

Thanks, Buddy
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Retro Rocketeer
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:16 pm

You are right. The Versys is not a capable off road bike stock. Its a Ninja with long travel suspension. It too takes a lot to make it off pavement capable. If you scored a wreck job Ninja, then the price is right to make what you want.

There are lots of opinions about the cam swap. If you already have the cam, its an easy job to swap and experiment, as the stock sprockets are slotted. I've run many combinations and all were a compromise. If you want top end, stay stock. If you want corner launch, the Versys cam swap works.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1100
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:00 pm

Thanks, I don't want to neuter it, but realistically other than passing/merging the engine will rarely see the far side of 7k for most of what I have in mind. So I've read so many different things, some say two versys cams, but looking at the specs the Ninja exhaust cam is identicle?, some say use the Ninja intake cam in the exhaust?
No dyno results I could find or conclusive data. I do happen to have a Versys intake & exhaust cam in my shop.

Thanks,
Buddy
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:41 pm

Swing arm tacked together, trial fit. With the R1 shock I'm getting just over 8" of rear wheel travel.

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I put 200 miles on it (about 50 of those offroad) prior to extending the swing arm, the engine is suprisingly tractable as is, but I'm still curious about swapping in a Versys cam
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Retro Rocketeer
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:50 pm

Though you now have sweat into your project, here's another end product.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=19770

You could improve on this guys job by taking your USD forks, and adding a better shock than the stock KLR.
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Warhound » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:27 pm

If you just happen to have a versys intake and exhaust, can you measure them vs the stock ninja cams to see what the difference is? From what I've found the ninja exhaust cam is identical to the versys intake cam... If you get a chance that'd be great.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:58 pm

Retro Rocketeer wrote:Though you now have sweat into your project, here's another end product.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=19770

You could improve on this guys job by taking your USD forks, and adding a better shock than the stock KLR.


Thanks, I have seen that build & he did a great job. If I was to do a frame swap, I'd pick something besides a KLR. I'm actually very pleased with the Ninja frame. The only real drawbacks are the steering limits & the funky (for a dirtbike) fuel tank.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:06 pm

Warhound wrote:If you just happen to have a versys intake and exhaust, can you measure them vs the stock ninja cams to see what the difference is? From what I've found the ninja exhaust cam is identical to the versys intake cam... If you get a chance that'd be great.


The Versys intake cam measures .310" lobe lift.

My Ninja motor is together, so you're on your own for that measurement, but I'd be curious what you find.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:42 pm

This thing is a hoot! It's very capable offroad, a little heavy for real tight singletrack, but it will do it. Where it shines is on two track 2nd -6th gear stuff. I'm disassembling for paint now that I've thrashed it a bit & I'm sure I'm through welding. I'm thinking all black, possibly a charcoal frame?

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4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:22 pm

Photshopped the frame black

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So now it's stripped for paint

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I went ahead & swapped in the versys intake cam, the lift was the same as the existing exhaust cam. I'll be running the stock exhaust & a pipercross filter. I'm very tempted to pull the sub throttle plates so the engine does what I want when I want I'm thinking it might be best to do one thing at a time. I have not bought a PC yet, looking at the PC V 17-008 or 17-030 is there really any need for changing the ignition timing? Any one have a good map to start with for my combo?
I'm running the stock muffler largely because it's a legal spark arrestor, unles someone knows of a viable legal option?
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:21 pm

Progress

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4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Image
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Retro Rocketeer
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:28 pm

What route did you follow for spring and valving for the R1 shock?
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:39 pm

I went wth a Hypercol 950lb 2.25x7 spring & their adapters. That's ~5% stiffer than a stock Versys & seems to be about right with just me. I took my wife for a short pavement ride & it was nice. With luggage & two up, we'll see, The shock has not been revalved yet, I'll take the whole bike to Pete Russel in a few weeks to see what he can do with it. For exploring, it's not bad at all, but if I start hitting the water bars it needs more control.
I wound up with 8.25" of usable rear wheel travel, the 18" wheel & 150 tire meant making some room for full compression to get the travel without making the bike too tall. I extended the swingarm 2.5", I may back that off to 1.5" if I think it's a problem. The bike is very stable offroad, Knowing the rake & trail are what ever they wound up at, I was very pleased both on the highway & offroad. I had planned adding a scotts stabilier, but at this time I don't see the need.

I did swap in the versys cam, I ran the bike earlier & it seems to run fine. I ordered a PC5 & auto tune, I'm still looing into mufflers that are forestry legal, anu idea's? Looking at Supertrapp & condsidering having Thunder Alley make up a custom Krizzman type for me.
What's your opinion on removing the sub throttle plates?
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:34 pm

I've been working on setting a 2007 R1 shock up for my Versys. I had Cannon Racecraft wind me a 16.8-18.6 spring. I'm 170lbs geared up. After experimenting with a couple straight rate springs, I'm glad I did a progressive spring. Not having any linkage, the Versys really benefitted from the progressive wind. I'm close to my 6th and final (for now) valving.

As for a spark arrestor, my only idea is purchase a silencer with a removable quite tip option like a Two Bros or my LeoVince and install a cone of arrestor screen around the inside of the insert like a Thumper Racing insert.

If you have good wrist control, and are installing a PCV and Autotune, removing the sub plates shouldn't be an issue. Otherwise, you might find the throttle more abrupt at lower speeds. Its sort of a trade off. Delayed reaction from the throttle with the plates in, or instant (to some riders abrupt) with them out. My road racing Ninja I had them out of course. I removed them from my Versys and have contemplated reinstalling them a couple times. I have a PCV installed and I occasionally make little tuning tweeks that smooth it out a little at a time. Its not enough of an annoyance that it gets my attention enough to tune it to an end result. I have (not bragging) 8 bikes to take care of to keep my family of 4 riding happily. Its tough to have any one bike tuned to perfection. ;-)
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:34 pm

The progressive rate makes sense & I run one on my KTM for the same reason.
I may have one wound when I have a better idea what I need. The sag is about right with the spring that's in there, but I did notice on the creek crossings it could've used some help, I was going to wait until the dampening was closer before changing anything. I'm heavier than you, my wife is sub 120 & it was not squating too much with her on board. Adding 30lbs of tools & luggage at the rear might be an issue. I installed 52g springs in the KTM forks & they feel suprisingly good. Once I get the back sorted I may have Pete massage the forks.
I've only have the two bikes for now, I still have a daughter throwing money at college. I've been hearing she'll graduate in two more years since 2008, last I heard she still has two more years to go. :what

I don't want it too loud, but after handling the stock muffler I hate to leave that much ballast on the bike. The bike weighs 444 with a full Versys tank, heavier than I hoped but with all the guards & racks it's 100lbs lighter than the KTM990 I had & it handles better than the KTM did stock. I'd actually rather ride this than the 990 & I liked it alot.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:34 pm

I saw a "used like new" Supertrap elite 4" on Amazon for $68 shipped, so I'm going to give that a try. It's forestry legal & I can play with the disc for sound & tuning.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 pm

Just took a spin & my non scientific buttometer says it's better with the Versys intake cam. Rolls out of the residential turns stronger & comes alive about 700 rpm sooner. I did not rev it out too far, we had a black & white radaring the neighborhood & I almost got caught looking stupid (four lane access road no driveways or intersections for 4 blocks).
It's all stock other than the cam, no tuning & no hiccups. Me like.

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The pc5 & autotuner should be here tomorrow & I can start my learning curve after I weld the O2 bung in... Honestly it runs so well, I'm feeling a bit frivilous for buying a tuner.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:41 pm

No police today, so I zinged it to 9500 a couple of times, my buttometer doesn't sense any loss of top end, this thing screams. Seems to take a bit to really start honking, around 6k & it takes all the slack out of the forks. Felt a little on/off just above idle this time. My auto tune showed up today the PC5 should be her shortly.
Any suggestions on the O2 sensor bung location?

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4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:17 pm

I took it to my buddy Pete Russel to revalve the shock. I wish I would have had the camera handy while he was running it on the vintage moto x track. The 1st time I saw him lauch it, I was alittle concerned for his safety, but it landed like it was somehow natural for a Ninja to be landing from a moto x jump (remember I said vintage track baby jumps).

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4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:58 pm

The bike runs beautifully with the versys cam & stock exhaust. I still plan to install the autotune mostly curious where it thinks the fuel curve is.

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The down pic gives a better idea of the grade

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4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:36 pm

I installed the autotune & have given it a couple of days of testing. Bottom line is with stock everything except the Versys intake cam there was very little to improve. The trims were all to take away fuel, mostly in the 2-4k, 0-15% range very little change needed. I "think" I felt slightly better throttle response in the 3-5k but the map was within 5% of stock.
Since this is an offroad explorer & I can't honestly say it was better anywhere, I removed the PCV and autotune & will post them in the classifieds.
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:00 pm

Something I wanted to experiment with before I sold my race Ninja was whether the stock Versys head pipes worked any better or different than the stock Ninja head pipes. I don't know if there's a total length difference or not, but the Versys head pipes have a crossover pipe at about mid length.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:47 pm

I bought a used '12 ninja header because I read they added the crossover & redesigned the muffler for more torque. What I didn't know is the new muffler interferes with the dran plug on an '06 & the header spigot flange is bigger in diameter too.
If I stumble across a versys header, I would like to try one as well. For now, the Ninja engine is suprisingly happy as a two track trail bike.
4play
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Re: Ninja Adventure Bike

Postby 4play » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:57 pm

The bike is working well, we did 320 miles Saturday, all but 60 of it was offroad.

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