Clutch Engagement

Here is the place to ask questions about working on your 650.

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JayDee
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:28 am

Clutch Engagement

Postby JayDee » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:39 am

Hi, I began commuting on my 650r again few months back. In last 3 weeks or so I've noticed few issues with clutch engagement and shifting.

1st issue I noticed that sometimes when I wanted to quickly shift from 2nd to 1st, often I'd end up in Neutral. I've been riding for years now and more importantly the bike did no do this before ( I did search the topic prior to creating this thread :)fu ).

2nd issue with clutch engagement. 3 weeks ago it was time for an oil change, I opted to go with 5w30 Synthetic. 2-3 days later I began to feel that the friction zone was reducing day by day. I adjusted the clutch cable with the thumbscrew at the lever, but it made very little difference. I remembered putting in 2 quarts instead of 1.9. Thought maybe this is causing extra stress on clutch plates, so last night I drained the oil & added exactly 1.7Qts of Quaker 10w40 Synthetic. Also adjusted clutch cable behind the fairing to maximum amount, then made slight cable adjustments at the lever (about 1/2 way) until it felt right.

Ride home felt good, seems to help a bit but I'm not fully convinced that I've fixed the problem. The bike is a 2007 650r with 4500 miles, no burnouts, no clutch wheelies ever! Aside from oil changes & lube/tightening of chain, no other services have been done besides the first one at 1k miles. Wanted some sound advise before I order a clutch cable & springs. The cable is frayed, showed no signs of wear/stretching anywhere, so I'm somewhat confused as to what is going on here. HELP! Thanks.
dmarsingill
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:42 pm
Location: Dacula, GA

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby dmarsingill » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:36 pm

Are you using motorcycle specific oil. If not, drain it again and put the correct oil in it. The oil made for cars will kill your clutches.


Donald
'07 Blue 650
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Retro Rocketeer
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Location: Boise, ID

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby Retro Rocketeer » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:40 pm

The days we could run auto oil in our bikes are dwindling. Hell, its hard now just finding any generic 10w40 in the Walmart/Target/etc. auto aisles. Everything is 5w30 or similar now.

Never run any automotive oil in your bike that says Fuel Saver/Fuel Efficient. That pretty much encompasses all the 5wAnythings in the auto oil dept. They are formulated to be slicker to eliminate as much drag as possible in order to be more fuel efficient. Thinner viscosity for the same reasons.

Oils can be too slick for bikes with wet clutches.

Auto oils are also void of many of the high pressure anti shear additives that motorcycles require, hense your quick degrade of the 5w30 you put in.

I'm not saying stay away from auto oils and buy motorcycle only. In some cases, its just not practical depending on your sources and availability. If you absolutely have to run auto oil, find a quality 10w40 minimum. If you live in a warm climate, and the starter can pull it, run a 30w if you can find it. Just don't try anymore of that 5w20 or 30 anymore. Your clutch, tranny, crank will thank you in extended miles.

You mention you have a diminishing friction zone. You also said you have a fraying clutch cable. Sounds like you need to replace the cable ASAP. A non stretched/stretching cable will restore some friction zone.
JayDee
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:28 am

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby JayDee » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Thank you for your responses Donald & Retro.

The oil I'm using IS auto, I began using auto oil in my 05 R6. Never had any problems, so I also ran it in my 08 600RR. However, this was the first time I put 5w grade in the ninja.

Also, I meant to say the clutch cable is NOT frayed. The bike ran pretty good this morning, clutch felt solid and friction zone wasn't as bad as earlier in the week. I will take your words of wisdom and buy some 10w grade bike oil over the weekend. I work at an automotive shop and have access to all sorts of auto oils, was sort of a perk to just use auto synthetic :mrgreen: Not worth killing the 650r though.
electjohn
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: North East Ohio

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby electjohn » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:02 am

I have used auto oil in my bike and with over 30,000 miles have had no clutch problems. :sm
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tribulation138
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Location: Connecticut
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Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby tribulation138 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:44 pm

stock clutch springs suck.

get new stronger ones from brp.. :fro
I have to many mods to post here.
dmarsingill
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:42 pm
Location: Dacula, GA

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby dmarsingill » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:35 pm

Why are people not using bike oil? Around here, it's just as cheap as any other oil. They have it at all the parts stores and even Wal-Mart. I suppose if you only ride highway with no stop and go......your clutch will last. The auto oil has friction reducers that are not compatible with friction materials. It's not a sales gimmick to sell more bike oil. Also it doesn't matter what viscosity the auto oil it is.......it has the friction reducers.

Donald
'07 Blue 650
vircotto
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:33 pm

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby vircotto » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:45 pm

Auto oil full syn is about $4 a liter where full syn motorcycle specific is $10-15

dmarsingill how much is bike oil where you are and is it full synthetic, blend or mineral?

I used auto oil in my 250 and my 650 for about 20k miles both are fine.

I do use bike oil now, but I never had any problems while using auto oil. I never used auto oil with with friction modifiers.

Here is a page with information about oils in our bikes :)

http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~shane ... uestion_41
dmarsingill
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:42 pm
Location: Dacula, GA

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby dmarsingill » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:50 pm

Autozone....Same prices as on their website

All Valvoline

Auto 10w40 $5.29
Auto Full Syntetic $8.29


Motorcycle 10w40 $4.99
Motorcycle Full Synthetic $8.99


Mobil 1 Racing 4t $10.99

Donald
'07 Blue 650
JayDee
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:28 am

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby JayDee » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:10 pm

I put Auto oil in the 650r because as I mentioned previously, I used it in 05 R6 and 08 600RR without any problems. It wasn't so much due to the price, more so b/c auto oil was free and readily available. Ended up putting some 4T at $10.89 a liter, not expensive at all when compared to price of a clutch/motor :cool

Btw, the clutch feels better but I'm going to replace the springs in a week or 2 anyhow. A bit paranoid I guess...
mostholycerebus
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 11:51 am

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby mostholycerebus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:06 pm

Am I the only one running Rotella T6 5w40 synthetic oil from walmart? I thought it was the hip new motor oil. Moto specific oil is over $10/at here.
dmarsingill
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:42 pm
Location: Dacula, GA

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby dmarsingill » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:53 pm

You need to make sure you are getting the right Rotella oil. They changed their lineup a couple of years ago.

Donald
'07 Blue 650
mostholycerebus
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 11:51 am

Re: Clutch Engagement

Postby mostholycerebus » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:12 pm

Well, people have been using the t5 for years. The new t6 came out a few years back, is supposed to be even better, and IIRC even be certed for bikes...

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